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Mar 21, 2008 at 09:03 PM CDT

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PGR3 vs FM2 Scoring Analysis

Posted by: MarkDolven



One of the biggest changes as we enter the second season of the CGS is the scoring change in our racing title. Not only was the switch made to Forza Motorsport 2 from Project Gotham Racing 3, but the scoring was also slightly modified. Last year the Chicago Chimera took full advantage of the scoring system with a lot of 8-1 victories. The question becomes with the change, will things be any different? Will Forza2 be less of an impact game than Project Gotham Racing 3 was? In this article we break it all down using the numbers and results from Region 1.

PGR3 Scoring Forza2 Scoring
1st/2nd
vs
3rd/4th
8-1 (plus 7) 6-1 (plus 5)
1st/3rd
vs
2nd/4th
6-3 (plus 3) 5-2 (plus 3)
1st/4th
vs
2nd/3rd
5-4 (plus 1) 4-3 (plus 1)

Did they win this from the system?

As you can see by the above chart, the scoring system has changed from 5 points for first, 3 points for second and 1 point for third place to a more conservative 4 points for first, 2 points for second and 1 point for third. This has effectively balanced out the racing title in the grand scheme of things because now the maximum gain is now +5 points instead of +7 that was available last year. This puts Forza2 directly in line with Dead or Alive 4 in terms of maximum blowout potential. The beauty of the new scoring is that it did not effect the point differential in the more popular two set of results, the 1st/3rd and 1st/4th combinations.

The common set of thinking in regards to last year is that the Chicago Chimera won the Region 1 championship and ultimately the World Final behind the speed of their racers. While this may be true, it needs to be addressed on whether this was a product of the system or just the dominance of Ch0mpr and Jason X. One of the best ways to figure out the question is to analyze and break down all of the results from Region 1. We have done that below.

07 Overall Score 08 Overall Score
Region 1 - EA Studios
Core.PGR > 3D.PGR Core [28] > 3D [25] Core [26] > 3D [25]
coL.PGR > Venom.PGR Venom [24] > coL [20] Venom [23] > coL [19]
Chi.PGR > Optx.PGR Optx [25] > Chimera [18] Optx [25] > Chimera [16]
coL.PGR > 3D.PGR coL [22] > 3D [20] coL [21] > 3D [19]
Chi.PGR > Core.PGR Chimera [26] > Core [18] Chimera [25] > Core [17]
Venom.PGR > Optx.PGR Optx [25] > Venom [16] Optx [24] > Venom [15]
Chi.PGR > coL.PGR Chimera [27] > coL [16] Chimera [26] > coL [15]
Optx.PGR > Core.PGR Optx [26] > Core [19] Optx [24] > Core [19]
3D.PGR > Venom.PGR 3D [24] > Venom [22] 3D [23] > Venom [21]
Chi.PGR > 3D.PGR Chimera [31] > 3D [15] Chimera [29] > 3D [15]
Core.PGR > coL.PGR Core [24] > coL [17] Core [22] > coL [17]
Venom.PGR > Optx.PGR Optx [31] > Venom [22] Optx [30] > Venom [21]
3D.PGR > Core.PGR 3D [24] > Core [18] 3d [23] > Core [17]
Chi.PGR > Venom.PGR Chimera [24] > Venom [21] Chimera [22] > Venom [21]
coL.PGR > Optx.PGR coL [23] > Optx [22] coL [22] > Optx [21]
3D.PGR > Optx.PGR 3D [26] > Optx [24] 3D [25] > Optx [23]
Chi.PGR > Core.PGR Chimera [29] > Core [26] Chimera [28] > Core [25]
coL.PGR > Venom.PGR Venom [23] > coL [22] Venom [22] > coL [21]
Chi.PGR > 3D.PGR Chimera [25] > 3D [22] Chimera [23] > 3D [22]
Venom.PGR > Core.PGR Core [25] > Venom [23] Core [24] > Venom [22]
coL.PGR > Optx.PGR coL [28] > Optx [18] coL [26] > Optx [18]
Region 1 - TV Regular Season
coL.PGR > 3D.PGR 3D [24] > coL [17] 3D [23] > coL [17]
Optx.PGR > Venom.PGR Optx [25] > Venom [18] Optx [24] > Venom [17]
Chi.PGR > Core.PGR Core [22] > Chimera [21] Core [22] > Chimera [19]
coL.PGR > Optx.PGR coL [24] > Optx [23] coL [23] > Optx [22]
Chi.PGR > Venom.PGR Chimera [23] > Venom [19] Chimera [21] > Venom [19]
Core.PGR > 3D.PGR Core [26] > 3D [20] Core [24] > 3D [20]
Core.PGR > Venom.PGR Venom [22] > Core [21] Venom [22] > Core [19]
Chi.PGR > 3D.PGR 3D [25] > Chimera [24] 3D [24] > Chimera [23]
Core.PGR > coL.PGR Core [27] > coL [16] Core [26] > coL [15]
Optx.PGR > Chi.PGR Optx [23] > Chimera [19] Optx [22] > Chimera [18]
Optx.PGR > 3D.PGR Optx [28] > 3D [13] Optx [26] > 3D [13]
coL.PGR > Venom.PGR coL [26] > Venom [21] coL [25] > Venom [20]
Core.PGR > Optx.PGR Optx [25] > Core [19] Optx [24] > Core [18]
3D.PGR > Venom.PGR 3D [28] > Venom [17] 3D [27] > Venom [16]
Chi.PGR > coL.PGR Chimera [26] > coL [15] Chimera [24] > coL [15]
Region 1 - Playoffs
Chi.PGR > 3D.PGR Chimera [25] > 3D [22] Chimera [24] > 3D [21]
Core.PGR > Optx.PGR Core [22] > Optx [19] Core [20] > Optx [19]
Chi.PGR > Core.PGR Chimera [22] > Core [21] Chimera [21] > Core [20]

If you somehow managed to read that chart of information, the first thing you will notice is that of the 38 matches that took place in Region 1, not one overall franchise match would have been different if the Forza2 scoring set had been used last year. That’s a pretty crazy fact considering there were some insanely close matches and a lot of the tides were turned with 8-1 placings. At the end of the day though, statistically, nothing would have changed.

This 8-1 against San Francisco helped
the Core make the World Final

One thing the stats don’t bring into the picture is the emotional turn around that some of these matches feel from the 8-1 factor. For instance in the Region 1 semi-finals when the Core played the San Francisco Optx, an 8-1 finish might have been the difference maker because of the scoring. The night started with Vanessa getting her standard 5-0 victory and that was directly followed by a 3-1 win for Stermy. So after two games, the Optx were in control of the match 8-1. On stage you could tell that all of the momentum was in San Francisco’s corner and that things were looking rough for the Core. After a few glorious laps and about three minutes of time, the score was instantly equalized at 9-9 behind Phantom and Rex dominating San Francisco. This reversed the momentum and pointed the Core in the right direction as they went on to win the match. In the new scoring system, Phantom and Rex would have brought the match back to 9-7 instead of the tie game. Although the Core won the match by a total of three points, it’s tough to say if the CS:S game and then the final Dead or Alive 4 match would have differently if the Optx still had the lead. So although, the 8-1 statistically changed nothing, it is my firm belief that it will definitely be a huge factor mentally.

Also, despite not changing any of the results directly, it made a lot of games closer overall. If you look at the above chart, there are a lot more 1-3 point games, as opposed to some of the blowouts. This provides better competition and is generally better for the sport. So in all honestly, this points change is truly good for the league. It doesn’t instantly turn around matches, but it provides a more equal scoring system.

The “nerfing” of the Forza scoring system doesn’t mean that it is not important. If you again look at the Region 1 results, you will notice that when you win in the racing game, no matter by what margin, your team wins the overall franchise match 71% of the time. That means that if you lose in Forza2 this year, you will only win 29% of your matches. I don’t have the statistics for the other games calculated, but I would speculate that winning in Forza is still the most important of the five disciplines. So to answer our own question from earlier in the article, the Chimera may have won because of their racing team, but it wasn’t because of a flaw in the scoring system. They were just that damn good.

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#1

March 21, 2008 at 10:38 PM CDT

BlackxxxMamba
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Posts: 404
Location: Rio Rancho

Pro Gamer Pro Gamer

Good article.

Thank you for shining some light about the PGR scoring system and the Chimera PGR scoring.

Sophitia.... SOOO CA$H

#2

March 21, 2008 at 11:32 PM CDT

GeneralELive
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Posts: 324
Location: West Lafayette

Pro Gamer Pro Gamer

Great article, the forza season is going to be very important in determining which team makes it to the world finals.


http://www.thecgs.com/index.php?s=upanel...

#3

March 21, 2008 at 11:38 PM CDT

OffbeatNinja
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Posts: 180
Location:

Pro Gamer Pro Gamer

Awesome idea for an article. Pretty interesting.

#4

March 21, 2008 at 11:57 PM CDT

NITRO
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Posts: 5586
Location: Sydney

Staff Member Staff Member

Good Read... very interesting insight which i hadn't known before

Thanks

Reg Torr - Forum & IRC Moderator
[RAK] Random Acts of Kindness. Do your part!

3D Fan since 2003

#5

March 22, 2008 at 12:09 AM CDT

Ch0mpr
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Posts: 708
Location: Isla Vista

Pro Gamer Pro Gamer

We were so good that they had to change the ruleset... and not the top paid? idk...but all I know is

pWNaGe

#6

March 22, 2008 at 01:53 AM CDT

Stune
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Posts: 866
Location: Dorchester

Pro Gamer Pro Gamer

Nice article. I must admit I was really puzzled when it was mentioned in other article about a change in the scoring system. I feel a little disappointed in the fact us racers now have a smaller chance to influence the franchise games, but the statistics highlighted in this article were comforting despite that. I do feel since there had been a revision to the racing scoring it would have been nice to incorporate an extra point to the team with the fastest lap, that would give alternative strategy options to the drivers.

I do feel that if any scoring system needs to be change it’s definitely CS. The problem lies with the fact that there are more points to be gained in CS than any all the remaining games added up now, (assuming a fifa score of no greater than 3-0). It certainly seems at least a little unbalanced now. It was highlighted in the world finals when Berlin Allianz come back to beat Mexico City Furia despite Mexico pulling out a huge lead going into the game. I won’t even go into the fact that the casual viewer at home tends to switch off CGS when it comes on unless they are fans of the game….


#7

March 22, 2008 at 02:01 AM CDT

xxmimi
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Posts: 355
Location: Bloomington

nice read. very interesting.

`3D.NY fan
`ComebackDan's personal assistant/beautician/motivator/interior designer

#8

March 22, 2008 at 06:01 AM CDT

EmiLd0od
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Posts: 1289
Location: Middletown

Not as many points awarded in Forza2, but overall Forza is a better game.

#9

March 22, 2008 at 09:17 AM CDT

R1R-Phantom
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Posts: 1760
Location: Carolina

Pro Gamer Pro Gamer

very nice insight mark! I have to agree that momentum played into the 8-1s more than a 6-1 will.

it is what it is

#10

March 22, 2008 at 12:26 PM CDT

radioactive
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Posts: 58
Location: Mather

Staff Member Staff Member

really well done, spells out the difference very clearly

#11

March 22, 2008 at 02:05 PM CDT

mEtAlxNG
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Location: Tepic

Pro Gamer Pro Gamer

nice analysis! really helped

#12

March 23, 2008 at 12:53 PM CDT

NT_101
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Posts: 79
Location: Bristol

Pro Gamer Pro Gamer

Nice Job Mark,

Referenced post #6 by Stune
Nice article. I must admit I was really puzzled when it was mentioned in other article about a change in the scoring system. I feel a little disappointed in the fact us racers now have a smaller chance to influence the franchise games, but the statistics highlighted in this article were comforting despite that. I do feel since there had been a revision to the racing scoring it would have been nice to incorporate an extra point to the team with the fastest lap, that would give alternative strateg...y options to the drivers.

I do feel that if any scoring system needs to be change it’s definitely CS. The problem lies with the fact that there are more points to be gained in CS than any all the remaining games added up now, (assuming a fifa score of no greater than 3-0). It certainly seems at least a little unbalanced now. It was highlighted in the world finals when Berlin Allianz come back to beat Mexico City Furia despite Mexico pulling out a huge lead going into the game. I won’t even go into the fact that the casual viewer at home tends to switch off CGS when it comes on unless they are fans of the game….
#6

I would just like to build on what Steve mentioned to be honest.

When I brought the idea up with Steve regarding the fastest lap scenario he really liked it. We both thought that it could be really effective in helping to raise a players game and help them to stay focused, because it would mean that each player would still have a point to play for until everyone has crossed the checkered flag, even if the race may have now been lost from an earlier incident.

Also, I think Steve's got a point regarding CS. 18 Rounds is a lot, most of the people that I watched the CGS with on TV over christmas got bored when it came to watching CS because the game lasted far to long and they simple didn't understand the concept. I felt really sorry for the Mexico team because they did a great job on the night but didn't make it through to the next round because their CS team wasn't up to the task.

Yes I understand that the CS team makes up half the team and their a vital part, but at the end of the day its only 1 of 5 different games, why is there so much emphasis on CS? I spent a lot of time talking to our CS guys in LA and their main argument about the number of rounds was that it takes them a few rounds to warm up. but my response was tough really, we're professionals... we only had 1 race lasting
all of 3 minutes in LA, We were flown 12,000 miles around the world to race one race and loved every minute of it, and even won it, But were just like any normal focused individual's, we just want to play games, its what were designed to do! The only reason's why Steve and Myself gelled so well as a team where through a lot of hard work and shear determination to our dedicated profession. But thats not the point, now that the scoring system has also changed for Forza, we think the other games need to take this into account because a whole franchise match can now be decided on whether the CS team performed on the night.

One other thing that was interesting when watching the UK coverage, was that we looked like a bunch of randoms that turned up in London. I battled for 4 days straight before london to get to where I was, but what also made it worse was that I had quite a hard time preparing for the event in London and didnt make the transition very well, I expect a lot of people watching at home were thinking, "why did he get drafted?" simply because they didnt see the build up.

I thought that it was a shame that there was a lack of coverage from the combine in Birmingham, because it was a great event and really well organised, i met a load of new friends from all over europe, but nobody at home got to see it...

To me, its things like this that make the CGS such a special experience and why I'm going to really fight to keep my space in the Mint team for 08.

101

Last modified on 3/23/2008 at 12:55 pm EST

#13

March 23, 2008 at 03:02 PM CDT

JaSoN-X
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Location: Fruitport

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nice article!

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